Electric Car Battery Pack Upgrades: How BMW and Renault Are Leading The Pack

Electric Car Battery Pack Upgrades: How BMW and Renault Are Leading The Pack


Admit it, you hate it when you buy a new computer
or mobile phone only to have a newer, better one come out the week later. And I bet it’s happened to you at least
once. And as you’ll know if you’ve purchased
an electric car, there’s a similar amount same pain and suffering when your new car
gets superseded by a newer, more capable model with a larger capacity battery pack and longer
range. It’s double the pain if this new car is
practically identical to yours — only with a larger battery pack. Why? Because while Tesla used to let you upgrade
your battery pack, it doesn’t any more. Nor do most automakers out there, claiming
that the swap is either technically difficult or simply too expensive. Except two. BMW and Renault. And I’m going to tell you all about how
cool these two companies are in offering such an upgrade next. Hi everyone! It’s Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield here from Transport
Evolved and today we’re going to talk about battery swapping. No, I don’t mean the rapid battery swap
tech that failed company Better Place tried to to use across Israel to shift everyone
to clean, green electric cars powered by renewable energy… Nor do I mean Tesla’s experimental battery
swap station that was supposed to offer Tesla customers long-range travel without needing
to wait at a Supercharger station for an hour while their car refuelled. No, I’m talking about taking your existing
electric car battery pack and swapping it out for a more capable, longer-range version
when one becomes available, not only giving your electric car a new lease of life if it’s
getting a little long in the tooth but actually extending its capabilities and range beyond
what was possible when it was new. So far, battery upgrades have been a little
bit of a pain in the butt to get. While most automakers out there will quite
happily replace a battery pack under warranty (if it suffers premature ageing or catastrophic
capacity loss that’s outside of what the warranty says is normal) you’ll likely get
a new battery pack that’s the same capacity as the original one. Sometimes that battery pack will even include
newer, next-generation cells to ensure longer life and better performance in extreme temperatures
— but you’re going to get the same capacity as you originally had. The only exception to that historically has
been Tesla, which at one time did let early Tesla Model S owners swap out lower-capacity
battery packs for higher-capacity ones — provided they paid the appropriate upgrade fee. Last year, BMW became the first automaker
to officially offer battery upgrades for owners of its i3 electric car, offering those in
key markets the chance to swap their car’s original 22 kilowatt-hour battery packs for
upgraded 33 kilowatt-hour battery packs. UK and U.S. customers aren’t able to take
advantage of this, as neither BMW UK nor BMW North America signed up to the scheme, but
those in mainland Europe can upgrade their BMW i3’s battery pack for seven thousand
euro (about seven thousand six hundred U.S. dollars or six thousand pounds), provided
they exchange the new pack for their old one. The old battery then heads off to BMW where
it enters into BMW’s second-life program to become part of a grid-tied electricity
storage system. And if you’ve got that extra money, that’s
a great upgrade opportunity in order to extend the original 81 miles of the BMW i3 EV to
114 miles. But you still have to pay the extra money
and that’s quite a chunk of change to find behind the back of the sofa. But earlier this week French automaker Renault
announced that it would soon be offering owners of its ZOE electric car the chance to upgrade
their ZOE’s existing battery pack from the 22 kilowatt-hour pack it came with to the
latest-generation 41 kilowatt-hour pack. That’s nearly double the capacity of the
original pack, meaning double the range in real-world conditions. And what’s more, customers won’t have
to fork out quite as much on the upgraded pack in one sitting as BMW customers, because
in most European markets the Renault ZOE is sold to customers without a battery pack — and
then it charges customers a monthly lease fee based on the number of miles they expect
to do per year. Pricing to upgrade your ZOE Z.E. from 22 kilowatt-hours
to 41 kilowatt-hours is reportedly three thousand five hundred Euro if you lease your current
battery pack (plus you’ll have to sign up to a new battery rental contract which will
likely carry a higher monthly cost) or nine thousand nine hundred euro if you happen to
live in one of the markets where Renault has been selling ZOE with a battery pack as part
of the purchase deal. Now, whatever your thought on battery leasing
— many European customers are said to prefer outright purchase to leasing — this means
that it might be easier to budget for a battery upgrade if you’re a ZOE driver than say
a BMW i3 owner. But like all other automakers, know that both
Renault and BMW would unofficially prefer you to buy a new car. After all, that’s where they make most their
money, right? Can you switch from a leased 22 kilowatt-hour
to a purchased 41 kilowatt-hour pak? Yes, but you’ll have to pay out the lease
deal with Renault Credit International (which is seven thousand euro when new, depreciating
by ten percent for every year you’ve owned the car). That said however, if you’re looking to
extend the life of your car — which is by far the more ecological solution to just buying
a new car — battery pack upgrades are the way forward, which is why I think every automaker
should offer them. They won’t of course, but hey, I can wish
right? How about you? Do you think battery pack upgrades are a good
or a bad thing? Have you had a battery pack upgrade for your
car? How did it go? Was it worth the extra money? And would you do it again? Leave your thoughts in the Comments below,
and don’t forget to like, comment and subscribe! And if you want to help me make more videos
like this, consider donating to Transport Evolved via the Patreon crowdfunding campaign
we’ve got going — a link for which is in the description below and at the end of this
video. I’ll be back tomorrow with more videos so
don’t forget to hit the notification button in YouTube to make sure you don’t miss it! Thanks for watching, I’m Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield,
and until next time, Keep Evolving!

85 thoughts on “Electric Car Battery Pack Upgrades: How BMW and Renault Are Leading The Pack

  • Even when the car manufacturers don't offer a battery upgrade it is really disappointing when the 'new' model car only has a tiny capacity update. E.g the September 2017 Leaf will only have 40kWh available – how is this going to be a pleasant surprise (as Nissan have claimed), when it is so small? I think a pleasant surprise would have been a 50-60kWh pack, not 40kWh. 40kWh is what should have gone into the late 2016 model to make the upgrade from 24kWh worthwhile.

  • I would love a 41 kw upgrade for my fluence but sadly as Renault won't include a fast charge update as well I think a brand new Zoe 40 is the only option or should that be a Hyundai ioniq?

  • Hopefully someday they will have standardized battery pack sizes to facilitate such future battery pack swaps and allow them to be used on multiple vehicles.

  • Battery upgrades make sense to buyers (if not manufacturers), especially of second hand electric cars. I can't afford to buy a brand new car but, I will definitely purchase a second hand electric car next year. The possibility of extending range later is very attractive. I think it's​ likely that generic replacement manufacturers will appear once the market is big enough and cost of production reduces. We buy generic batteries for our mobile phones, why not cars?

  • Ever since I have returned to desctop PC, I don't have this problem 🙂 every component can be replaced separately so it's easy upgrade 🙂
    I think there will be some aftermarket​ battery upgrade solutions when EVs get a bit more widespread

  • I think a battery upgrade makes a lot of sense for the short range cars like i3 and Zoe, but for Tesla I don't see the point. At least not now.

  • Not worth the money. 24kwh is enough for me. Even if the 30kwh option was available when I bought my Leaf in 2015, I still wouldn't have gone for it. The extra cost would have reduced the financial benefit of owning an electric car and all it would have done is prevent a single charging stop on a road trip that I do maybe twice a year. Not worth it.

  • 🙂
    I am on a lower step of the ladder of success and retired on a fixed income. Thus I only drive
    a EV from my living room recliner. However I am a guy that built a few Heath Kits with my dad
    as a grade schooler, built, test piloted and than enjoyed a kit helicopter for 130 flight hours in
    early 90s, so I consider my self as some what of a techie. SO, no first hand experience with own-
    ing n driving a EV as yet…………..

    My 2 cents on EV power supply is simple, The More Options the BETTER………….

    However, Sure seems the first trick needs to be that this option be designed into the product,
    Both physically, electrical and software up dates wise.

    Also, when is ANY EV Mfr. (especially future Utility EV Mfrs) going to design in the capability
    to tow and electrical connect a small or large hybrid cargo/battery trailer to their line of vehicles?
    This could easily be part of UHaul's business model to also rent energy trailers globally perhaps.
    🙂

  • I have a Zoe ZE 40 and bought the battery outright. I did see a talk from the Renault battery developer who said they don't like to leave their customers high and dry when a newer battery comes out, I suspect the ZE 40 won't be upgradeable when a newer Zoe comes out but I have a small hope that over time some after market companies may start offering upgrades and faster charging as it becomes available. Having said that I have an 8 year warranty with my battery so I wouldn't be mucking around with my car during that period. I am finding that my current range is 160-180 miles (Spring in the UK) and I am quite happy with that.

  • An obvious alternative to battery upgrade, that according to me makes even more ecological sense, is to sell your car to somebody who does not need more autonomy and buy a new one for yourself. First it saves the work (and so money), second it gives an opportunity for people who cannot afford a new car to drive an electric car. I think that a more useful point would be for automakers to give the opportunity to replace a damaged battery by a higher capacity new one by paying an upgrade fee. Anyway thanks to Renault and BMW for their move.

  • Bigger battery pack means faster charging speeds. I would definitely upgrade my 2012 Nissan LEAF SL's 24 kWh pack to the new 33 kWh pack for a good price.

  • there is an excellent business there for a new startup company. once the cars reach the end of their warranted period.
    I can see no downside to battery swaps. it will massively increase the after market values of electric cars. Take the Nissan Leaf for example the single lowest residual values of any car ever sold.. now stuff an OEM 45KWh battery in it.. what would it be valued at then?? Possibly more than new!

  • I'm hoping that by the time our 2014 i3 BEV sees significant range degradation that this battery upgrade program will be available in the USA.

  • I would do a battery upgrade in my Leaf if I could be sure that the existing battery is responsibly recycled.

  • I have a Renault Zoe , bought car , leased battery , 50 quid a month per month , for 7500 miles per year, four year lease, wait for it , 1800 sweetener to do deal so really only 600 quid for 4 years , 1 and 3/4 years to go , free electricity where I am still,( unexpected), no sign of charging yet, Ireland 🇮🇪 north and south , seen new 40 version , no reversing camera unless by top of range , would prefer swap of battery , hardly environmentally friendly if you change to new car, carbon foot print?, also question no answer to what happens to lease battery at end of four years , price to keep battery , new 22kwh lease , 41kwh deal swap out , new car subsidy 2nd time round ?, economic sense of what to do not clear. Renault dealership knowledge appears very poor or not bothering, time on my side , model3 never going to spend that much when Renault deals even at present look good comparatively , oh yes also 2 displays in a renault ps who's laughing now at Renault leasing of battery , they foreseen that small batteries for early adopters was not good long term , if they wish 2nd generation of ev sales to their own customers they will need this , cool a word I never thought Zoe would get for the battery. Best addition ever , ok maybe some reason I might say that, keep up the good work

  • What I would like is a package deal that means getting a new bigger battery for my i3 and keeping the old battery as a battery for my home. It is a used battery that I know haven't been mistreated and for my home would be more than big enough.

  • The answer is very simple : aftermarket! If a company like Kreisel Electric car offer upgrades at 2/3 the price BMW can, they certainly will. Kreisel has already managed to get a 55Kwh pack in the same space as the 22Kwh pack when Linear used their pack for their wireless BMS BMW i3 demonstrator. So, although it is not a commercialy available upgrade yet, but it has all the potential to be just that in the future (3-5 years from now). As for BMW, they only have the 22-33Kwh upgrade for the fully electric i3. Owners with the REX version (like me) are left out in the cold. So if that's BMW message,… my answer is clear. I refuse to buy another car from BMW, because I cannot financially justify getting rid of my purchased i3 60Ah when the resale value is peanuts. When the moment comes aftermarket upgrades will become available, I will go for that as opposed to BMW's non-offer for sure. The i3 could easily keep going for 500.000km or 20years. If there is no aftermarket upgrade available, I might just do the upgrade myself. Feasable…

  • The auto manufactures need a mental shift. Problem is that a used EV with a battery lease plan, is more expensive that an EV with a battery warranty.

  • This is surely the next step for Evs. "User" upgrade everything except the main structure: Computer, battery, engine… Let's get out of the infamous, horrid programmed obsolescence cycle so common today… And that is destroying our planet. They could make a lighter car, with more expensive materials, that could last a lifetime and then make the other parts upgradable…

  • Still going with the Model 3. All of their cars (with the exception of the Roadster) were built with easy access to the battery in mind. They don't have to take apart half of the interior to do it, that leaves battery upgrades as an easy revenue stream in the future. So with that, in combination with the Gigafactory, Tesla will more than likely offer battery upgrades as the capacity increases make it more desirable.

  • Great idea – however since my i3 battery is only 1 year old I'll wait until the 44kw battery comes out (in another 2-3 years maybe) and consider my options then – going from 22kw/h to 44kw/h will make a more significant difference and I will have had more use from the smaller (less energy dense) battery … with luck the new glass/sodium batteries will come on stream soon opening up even bigger and better possibilities! I have the range extender which is great for minimising range anxiety – it often cuts in when I'm 2-3 miles from my charge point destination so has saved my neck a few times..

  • Lawn equipment and hand power tools across the marketplace offer battery upgrades. You just buy a bigger battery and plug it in. My point is it speaks to brand loyalty and customer retention. I can take my bigger battery and use it interchangeably in my cordless drill or saw and go longer. it seems counterintuitive that auto manufacturers don't get this. And to consider a half used battery pack from a Leaf could function handsomely as a home energy storage system for soseone in its second configuration. Hopefully the aftermarket industry can seize the opportunity that the car manufacturers are missing. I could go on endlessly about our transition to sustainability, it will happen. We must look forward and think differently about what this means, uh, saving the planet(?), yes. I really enjoy you posts and look forward to many more. Keep up the great work!
    powersaw

  • 3,500 EUR doesn't seem like a good deal to me – it's not my battery – why should I pay anything more than the labour to swap it over and the higher monthly fee?

  • The bigger the car's initial battery pack, the less motivation there will be for wanting to get a bigger one.

    Tesla's decision makes sense to me. Upgrading a 22kWh i3 makes much more sense than upgrading a P90D

  • There was a thread in a previous episode that revolved around after market replacements and upgrades to battery packs via cluey workshops which are becoming out there for EVs. I think that's fantastic. A whole sub-market could develope where you could go to a workshop and get your car re-born for a fixed (lower) price. Batteriies are available off the shelf and a battery pack's not rocket science, it's not like redesigning an ICE with 300 different parts..

  • i think once the upgrades are cheap enough then it definitely makes sense. i mean plenty of people put new engines in cars

  • Since these options are NOT available in the US of A, I am hoping that competition increases and 3rd parties enter the fray to start driving the cost of battery packs down — or even introduce new technologies within the same battery housing geometry (eventually). I have a 2015 i3 REx. It's a year and a half old and has over 30,000 miles on it. So much for range worries. IF I could buy it out at the end of the lease for anything close to the market value (as opposed to the lease residual), I'd probably just buy it, run out the battery, and hope that the front part of this message comes true by the time the battery croaks. BUT I have a solar system on my house and would be happy to integrate the "spent" battery into that system for backup power.

  • Battery pack anxiety is like range anxiety: largely irrelevant to the way most people actually use cars every day.

  • I would argue that it is crucial that manufacturers offer this. Surprised and disappointed that BMW North America is not on board. When we test drove the REX, I got the impression that upgrades would be available. While EV's are simpler than ICE vehicles, the tech is very advanced. I doubt that ZOE is being sold stateside as yet. Fine for the companies to charge appropriately for battery upgrades. Tesla is breaking the standard mold of planned obsolescence as far as I can tell. Also, as a one car family with mostly city driving, our needs are served very well in that (future) EV.

  • Aftermarket battery packs could turn into a big business in a few years. As batteries get better, bigger and cheaper I would expect someone to sell packs to owners of earlier EVs to add range.

  • I think battery upgrades are a great idea. I have kept my ICE vehicles 10+ years as that can be the most economical barring any major repairs. My plan is to keep my Tesla MS P85+ for 8 years based on the existing battery warranty. If an option were there to replace & upgrade the battery I would certainly consider keeping the vehicle longer. Thanks,

  • I don't think battery upgrades is something that will be common. If you like a car with more range just replace the hole car, someone else will be more then happy with the range of the old car.

  • The EV industry has completely changed about swapping battery packs. At first it was proposed that battery packs could be swapped at stations, instead of charging the battery. That was discontinued by Tesla.
    Now, most EV companies don't want to change battery packs at all. We'll see how this is handled with EV's which are over 10 years old and are still on the road.

  • It all comes down to cost and benefit. BMW is after all a luxury brand so they priced the i3 on the larger end of the spectrum. Now they offer a service fee of thousands of euros which is not available in some of the largest markets. Renault has already a battery renting side business where they can now also offer a service fee to let you rent the more expensive one.

    A swap-able Nissan Leaf battery would be a big investment overall. The car has sold a lot and due to the lack of battery thermal management on the batteries they show perceivable capacity loss. That makes a difference in the already limited range. So they have to design something not too bigger than the existing 24/30 kWh and ideally they also need to have a battery management system … but they don't have the hookups available in the car. It will be costly to do so. They probably had to have a new generation to be able to fit a more modern battery pack.

    Similar things would follow the other manufacturers. For Tesla it is just a simple no. Pragmatic, I guess.

  • Your information about the BMW i3 battery pack upgrade is incorrect and incomplete. In Europe a 60Ah to 90Ah upgrade costs over 10K euro for an exchange pack. In addition it's BMW policy not to allow this upgrade on the range extender, even though the pack is identical in every way apart from capacity. The cars residual value and very expensive cost of repair make it pointless to upgrade once the original battery is getting towards end of life, as any minor accident would make it an insurance write off. Newer cheaper EVs with far more range will be available, so a pack upgrade is not great value and does not make any financial sense.

    I have watched the show many times and felt compelled to correct your incorrect information and assumptions about the i3.

  • The best way to protect yourself from long term obsolescence is to lease.

    When you buy an electric car, you're paying $20k for a battery, and $10k for the rest of the car. When the $20k battery becomes a $5k battery, it's gonna suck to be Exxon Mobile.

    I like what Renault is doing, but they need to bring the Zoe to America. They can't still be bummed about the Renault 5. That was half a century ago.

  • I think it's a good idea for you to upgrade to a much better battery than to buy a new better car they are not cheap and I'm not made of money.

  • When I bought my S70D a year ago, I assumed I could pay a maximum of 20K (USD or Euro) after about 5 years and get it replaced by a 90-100 kWh battery, and that the car itself would last at least 10 years. SInce then I think I've seen that Tesla have offered to replace the Roadster battery for a similar price.

  • Good info, again. On battery packs – it is safe to say, Renault have in effect introduced a 'hidden cost' to their Twizy and Zoe cars in some markets by the leasing wheeze. Regulation is the most likely way forward. Europe takes so long to do anything, this is not going to happen by force before 2020 I bet. In the UK, we always get the dirty end of this sort of stick. Whatever the more expensive or supplier-preferred method is, over customer's convenience and choice, is the one we always get. Sorry Renault – it stinks. Great cars, stinking EV finance. I thought about the comparison of leasing a petrol engine in a conventional car. Then I realised – you are only offered leasing deals on stuff that's pretty reliable. Battery (solid state) yes. ICE motor – no. Real estate – yes. Boiler in the real estate – no!

  • i will be upgrading my i3 when available in the UK. I'm not in the market for a new car. it's extra money for BMW rather than foregoing a sale.

  • I had the original Zoe and ran out the warranty till i sold it, and brought the 2017 model before this battery upgrade offer was on the table… the base model is about £3000 more then what I paid for the original zoe, after grant and trade in old car price… I would of done this deal had I known as I would of kept the rapid 40kw charge level and have a bigger battery instead of just a new car with a lower charge level… as well as the 41kw battery…

  • A battery pack for an EV is like an engine for an ICE car. Very expensive relative to the total cost of the vehicle. It won't be very popular to replace the battery with an upgraded unit in most cases. Why? For new car buyers, they will typically buy as big a battery as they can afford at the time of purchase. For used car buyers, they typically have even less money for an upgrade than a new car buyer. You will typically only replace your battery pack in cases analogous to when engines are swapped out. You'll replace a pack that is going bad or you're planning to race the car or you want a higher performance car than you can buy from the dealer's stock.

    Tesla did offer a battery upgrade for its roadster, I seem to recall. I suspect that when they come out with a sufficiently improved battery technology that they might offer upgraded packs for Model S and X too. They probably will wait, though, until they can offer an improvement of at least 25%.

  • What about the Renault Fluence ZE ? The range sucks !! And what about the fast charging option ? The Fluence has none…..Those are the two reasons, that I won't buy one second hand.

  • Yes, my 2011 Nissan Leaf is down to 8 bars, 40 miles of range. Nissan waited until the warranty (lassuit settlement) expired, ao now I'm stuck. I love the car, but this aspect is very disappointing.

  • Too bad we cant get the battery upgrade on the I3 in the US. You can buy a 2014 I3 for $15,000 in the states with almost no miles on it still under BMW warranty. An 60 to 80 miles range is almost useless in the states. With an $8000 battery upgrade that would mean you could get a 115 mile I3 in new condition for 23k. That is why BMW wont offer upgrades in the states. Unless you are a BMW nut a 2014 Volt cost about the same as the I3 used and offers a real world 40 mile electric range with a 250 mile gas back up.

  • EV and dronecars will be the future. The gasoline engine cars will be gone forever. Car manufacturers not realising this transformation will be left behind. EV cars are powerful, with less engine components, clean and moreover they are very cheap to maintain. Great to know that more car manufacturers are joining the EV manufacturers club. Soon the world will be flooded with EVs that makes the atmosphere cleaner. People who got fed up driving on roads esp facing with the massive jam everyday, will go into flying in a dronecar. It's really really awesome.

  • Wishing, wishing that manufacturers would start thinking about being able to sell to existing customers. Not just batteries, but really anything on the car can be removed, replaced, upgraded. Time to stop treating cars as disposable and start treating them as the framworks for ongoing sales, service, and upgrade options.

    Offering battery replacements, and battery upgrades should be a no brainer, but here we are wishing these companies would truly start thinking sustainability. This doesn't just mean the car is made out of recycled materials and can be fully recycled, but extending duty cycles and abilities far into the future reducing the need to recycle the unit.

  • I wish monufacturers other than BMW and Tesla offered better electric motors in their cars. Electric motors are incredible. Super small yet so powerful. Unfortunately instead of at least giving people the option to go with such a motor they usually offer something that's just barely adequate and not really that much faster than a normal, small, petrol engine. Why do I have to buy a $120 000 Tesla to get a powerful electric motor?

  • Great informative video, many thanks for your hard work. I own a 2011 Nissan Leaf and Yes I world happily upgrade if this would mean better quality type and increased range. Unfortunately, at the moment, Nissan doesn't offer this type of upgrade but only the better quality battery pack. Please, keep us updated.

  • This feels like printers and ink cartridges, or those coffee makers that only work with their own-brand coffee pods. If buying an electric car, I'd look bloody hard for one that allows me to pay for a third-party (aftermarket) battery pack to swap in/out. I dont know/think any exist right now, but thats what we need.

  • Currently we – not Renault – are developing this for the Renault Twizy. With double capacity 110 to 140km are possible.

  • First, If you buy an EV, you should only do so if you only trust in the batteries life and how it degrades. And I am quite sure it will serve us well over it's expected 8 years and maintain 80 % or more. Second, if your buying an EV as an environmentalist and also claiming the tax grants, the idea of swapping battery every 2-3 years or so, is contradicting. Government should penalise such measures. So start with decent battery pack outright and play accordingly…

  • At least as long as battery technology is evolving very fast (because of the need to avoid disadvantages such as a high weight and price per kWh, lack of capacity and quite low charge rate), battery upgrades are essential imho. And even if technology offers good batteries, it would be a good idea being able to adapt the car to changed customer requirements. And if Tesla can change a battery within 3 minutes, I cannot understand why this must be discussed at all. 😉

  • Back in 1984, during the NESA Tour de Sol, I saw a Honda hybrid with a trailer. I don't remember if the trailer had a battery or a gas powered generator. While driving my 2013 Nissan LEAF over the last 40,000 miles there were times I wished I could rent an "extend a range" trailer for my few long range trips. I will be getting a Tesla M3 but will not opt for the $9k, 9o mile battery upgrade. Why should I lug around all that extra weight 95% of my driving time? I'll rent a long range vehicle when I actually need it. It will take quite a few rentals to use up the $9k I'll save.

  • The should all slide in on trays like a cordless drill and a lock system with alarm each module would weigh 40 lbs. He who makes a car more renewable sells more cars as word gets out! Or a module exchange system like a gas station. Just drop of the discharged modules and slide in new ones and be on your way no charging needed. I think differently. Hub Motors in the wheels could easily upgraded or replace with old worn out ones. A car battery should go directly from car to powerwall with a adaptive module with wall mounting brackets that slides right over the old battery. Tesla car battery to powerwall in minutes

  • It's unsustainable to keep making new cars that can't run a million miles and be upgraded. We have to change our behavior if the world is going to survive. We are stealing the next generations future. Demand that auto makers change.

  • I've asked Renault and got an answer in March 2018 saying that the Zoë can be upgraded for 3500 euros as soon as the have batteries in stock. They only made 100 batteries available for 3000 cars out here in NL. They have no timeframe for having more and couldn't place me on a waiting list.

  • Question, if you can't cost effectively replace a battery in an EV, doesn't that make an EV a disposable vehicle? If that's the case, to me why buy one? My gas vehicle has lasted me 15 years and is in very good condition still.

  • A higher capacity battery costs more in electricity to charge, so I am happy with my lower capacity battery, just have to charge it more often.

  • BMW dealers are way too greedy in the US to allow for upgrades to my battery. That is why I hope LION offers 3rd party upgrades to BMW i3s, side-stepping the pin-striped executives at BMW, lining their pockets with all those new car sales profits and executive bonus's, off the back of us hard-working Plebs, forced to buy new BMW i3s, rather an upgrading our batteries.

  • I've almost bought a 330e twice now first time I didn't like the drive as it had no charge in the battery and drove with the power of a French car. Instead I went for a 335d which is outstanding in every way however my work commute is 8 miles at the weekend I manage 100 mile round trips however for 8 miles the 330e would be ideal.

    I was stopped the second time by a friend that works for a leasing company and has a 330e he says they have awful recall issues and the battery has degraded from well over 20 miles on full battery to less that 13 miles full battery.

    This stopped me from getting one.

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